[quote]Delusiional Pothos making wild claims about what the Iraqi population wants yet unable to back that up with even a shred of evidence
You have not offered that evidence, the data, the polls, the surveys, etc. to back up your gratuitous wild and silly claims here. So I am reposting this.
Just a few gratuitous, totally unsubstantiated, and self-serving claims showing how self-delusional you actually are and how severe your state-of-denial is.
"The things that I've argued here are pretty much supported by the general Iraqi population."
WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE IF I MAY ASK???
"A lot of Iraqis, that is those living in the country, wanted us to come in."
OH REALLY? WHERE IS THE INVITATION CARD THEY SENT YOU FOR THE BOMBING PARTY?
ANY EVIDENCE, DATA, A LITTLE PRE-WAR SURVEY MAYBE SHOWING THE MAJORITY OF THE IRAQIS "WANTED US TO COME IN"??? OR YOU ARE JUST GRATUITOUSLY CLAIMING STUFF LIKE THAT?
"Many of the Iraqis were praying for us to start the bombing and to remove Saddam Hussein."
That one has got to be the most idiotic and outrageous. If you believe that, that truly shows you ARE a brainwashed fanatic.
So they did not just want us "to come in", invade, and occupy now. They were also desperately "praying" for us to start the bombing!
When reading delusional statements like those above, clearly coming from a self-serving but sick mind in a severe state of denial, I am afraid I have to ask you again:
ANY EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE THAT WILD CLAIM OF YOURS? ANYTHING AT ALL? OR YOU ARE JUST SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT?
Nawww. I thought so. You got n-o-t-h-i-n-g except extravagant claims and bullshit.
(I am not surprised though. After all, dimwits like you ate so much of the intox' and shit the Iraqi defectors fed you to take the U.S. to war it is no wonder you are still full of it now!) [/quote]
All of this, because I made this statement:
All you have to do is look to the Iraqi Parliament. They represent the will of the Iraqi People. If the Iraqi People don't support what I said, then the Iraqi government would ask us to leave.
Have the Iraqi government officially asked us to leave? YES [ ] NO [ ]
Here's a cheat sheet for you:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070511/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq
[X]WASHINGTON - Worried Congress' support for Iraq is deteriorating rapidly, Baghdad dispatched senior officials to Capitol Hill this week to warn members one-on-one that pulling out U.S. troops would have disastrous consequences.
The lobbying push targeted Republicans and Democrats alike, but focused primarily on those considered influential in the war debate. [X]
You could've answered that question but you didn't. You spewed emotional rhetoric and ad homonyms instead.
All you had to do was to copy and paste that question, and place an "X" in the box that represented your position.
You see, I'm just being human, using common sense, and connecting that with pre Iraq War Iraqi comments. The cab driver stating that he'd kill himself if the bombings didn't begin? That cab driver actually said that.
The man that witnessed that did interviews. He has tapes of Iraqis saying the things that I've been arguing here.
See a trend here Robertson89? The person that talked to the cab driver was there. You weren't.
So, let's try to get you to emphasize with the Iraqis with another question.
Say you lived in a country where everybody feared the government. It had far reach in people's lives. They could call anybody, and that person would never be seen again. You're living in fear, hoping that you never end up in a plastic shredder feet first.
Now, say that a more powerful government was willing to topple the government you feared. This was a government reputed for spreading democracies. Would you want them to topple the government that you feared? YES [ ] NO [ ]
Copy and paste the entire scenario, as well as the question, then place an "X" in the reply that best represents your response.
You're refusing to deal with simple, common sense and human issues.
You try to dodge that by asking for their invitation card. You know that those that even tried that would get executed. You also attempt to ask me for hard core evidence you know the Iraqis themselves couldn't produce.
You're making a red herring argument.
You don't know first thing about the suffering the Iraqis went through for three decades.
Our gathering forces outside Iraqi borders offered these Iraqis something they've been dreaming their whole lives... hope for a better life.
They wanted a life where they wouldn't have to live in fear for themselves and their families. Look at their faces before and after the invasion. Before the invasion, the majority had uptight looking faces. They had lots to fear and worry about. Scenes of them cheering Saddam looked manufactured and forced.
What happened after the invasion? People had a more relaxed look on their faces. You could tell that they felt relieved. They also displayed real joy.
Now, as a human being, hopefully with common sense, you should be able to relate. If you don't have the capacity to relate on a human level, just talk to the majority of the U.S. military that has served in that country.
I'm pretty sure that many of them will tell you of the number of Iraqis that still approach them to thank them for what they did.
Before the war began, certain people went there as part of human shields. They talked to the Iraqi people. Those people were there, and they saw, first hand, what life was like under Saddam.
You failed to look beyond your cherry picked Iraqi comments. If you did, you'd notice that many Iraqis favor our staying in Iraq until their government could guarantee their security without our help.
This has nothing to do with "delusions," or with "just saying things." What I've mentioned actually happened, and is based on first hand accounts.
Updated to add:
I recently made a combat deployment to Iraq. What I said above was dead accurate. Recent first boots on the ground experience backs my argument. The vast majority of the Iraqis were happy for what we did for them. Many were apprehensive about our leaving and turning our operations over to the Iraqis.
None of them behaved the way Robertson89 claim they behaved.
[quote] Now, as opposed to you, bogus "fact-and-data" guy who can't even offer one single real data these days, when I myself make a claim, AT LEAST I BACK IT UP WITH SOMETHING CREDIBLE.
"ALIVE IN BAGHDAD-ORDINARY IRAQIS SPEAKING TO AMERICANS"
http://aliveinbaghdad.org/
Here, YOU are merely talking about what the Iraqi want (yeah right as if you had any clue!), but I MYSELF am putting here dozens of interviews and video clips of ordinary Iraqis telling you precisely want they want and how they see the situation. They come from all walks of life, privileged or poor, taxi drivers, physicians, priests, English-speaking students, etc. And none of them has been "paid" or "scared" by Sadr, as you claimed regarding the 600,000 Baghdad anti-demonstrators last month. They speak no bullshit.
See? At least THAT is concrete stuff, not vacuous rant and bullshit like you have been doing throughout your sorry 20-page + vacuous posts which contain nothing but bla bla bla bla bla bla "I am military!" bla bla bla bla bla "I KNOW what I am saying is true! I know it FOR A FACT!" bla bla bla bla bla bla "For a fact!" bla bla bla
Watch and listen and then let us know how what you argue is "supported" by them.
"ALIVE IN BAGHDAD-ORDINARY IRAQIS SPEAKING TO AMERICANS"
http://aliveinbaghdad.org/ [/quote]
And why should I? It's a BLOG. And in terms of representation, it's not scientific. When you don't have a scientific representation of the entire population, you don't have legs to stand on when trying to portray this as representative of all of Iraq.
We have a collection of cherry picked Iraqis voicing pretty much the same concerns and opinions as the person running the blog. So if that person is opposed to the US, or what we're doing, then chances are real good that his guests, and his samples, are going to be of the people that share his/her opinions.
Also, the blog does make a disclaimer, something about it representing a SMALL SLICE of the OPINIONS in Iraq.
Meaning, not scientific... So... back to you with regards to your argument. You don't think that the majority of the Iraqis want us to stay in. Since you feel that way, I'm holding you to the same standards you hold me... the same standards you refuse to hold yourself to.
Please answer your own questions with regards to your own argument:
"You have not offered that evidence, the data, the polls, the surveys, etc. to back up your gratuitous wild and silly claims here." -robertson89
"Where is your evidence if I may ask? -robertson89
"Oh Really? Where's the get out card that the Iraqi government sent us for getting out of Iraq?" -robertson89 question adjusted to force him to his own standards
"Any evidence, data, a little post-invasion survey maybe showing the majority of the Iraqis 'wanted us to get out'? Or are you gratuitously claiming stuff like that"? -robertson89 question adjusted to force him to his own standards
"Any evidence to substantiate your wild claim? Anything at all? Or are you just saying stuff like that? -robertson89
Answer your questions as they apply to your argument. Your cherry picked data, and biased blog, don't cut it.
As for the Sadr marches, again, they didn't come anywhere NEAR the 600,000 numbers that you tout. Even one of the sources you used had the number in the TENS of thousands, meaning, less than 100,000. That's less than a percent of their population, as in an insignificant fraction of one percent of their population.
Updated to add:
As of this writing, the "Alive in Baghdad" blog is dead in the water. They made their last blog entry in September 2009 (My first month of my recent deployment there).
The guy doesn't hesitate to blow steam up Odumba's ass, thus showing his bias.
I don't agree with his reasons for shutting down.
The real reason that he stopped his work is because finding people to carry his spin became extremely difficult. The more Iraq progressed, the more life in Iraq got better, the harder his job became.
Even the people that came remotely close to what he wanted would've ended up saying something that supported my argument.
The guy that ran that blog was dead wrong. Iraq has pretty much stabilized.
My boots on the ground observations there don't support the spin he perpetrates in this blog. My first hand experience definitely doesn't support what Robertson89 said. My experience simply verified what I argued on Avenue-X and elsewhere.
That shouldn't be surprising, that was my second combat deployment to Iraq.
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